Col. Paul Edor Obi (rtd), chairman of the board of National Orientation Agency and former military administrator of Bayelsa State, says there is an urgent need to strengthen the federal government’s information dissemination system. He also speaks on other political issues, in this interview with Paul Obi Excerpts:
Having worked with President Goodluck Jonathan closely when you were military administrator of Bayelsa State, what are those qualities you think the president has brought to bear in governance?
Like you said, I had known the president throughout my stay in Bayelsa as a military administrator. One of the first things that strike me about the president is his level of humility. He demonstrates the highest sense of humility. When you are humble and you don’t think that you know everything, that is a sign of a great person. He is ready to fight, he is ready to be faithful, and he is ready to work for other people. So, that humility is the first thing that is dear to me. And, his level of simplicity and selflessness goes to show how selfless he is because whatever he does, he puts himself out, he is not talking about himself or what he is going to achieve or acquire for himself. But he goes about it humbly, unassumingly in order to get the best.
But the president has been criticised for not being proactive when the occasion arises, a situation many allege to have often resulted in poor implementation of policies. How would you respond to this?
I think that is more of a generalised statement. We forget that democracy is a process and result. And today, we talk about due process. The beauty about democracy is the fact that we always disagree to agree. We forget that in a democratic dispensation, there are three organs of government; we have the executive branch, the legislature and the judiciary. And each of them has a distinct function. So, when you talk about being proactive, don’t forget that the executive is also limited to what it can do. Don’t also forget that in recent times, the government has been accused of all kinds of impunity. So, everything that the president does or fails to do is being interpreted, depending on what they see. But I think what people need to realise is that democracy is a process and ours is an evolving democracy; there is a due process of doing things.
Do you think the Jonathan administration is sincerely addressing the economic problems of the country’s poor, given that the record of progress Nigeria flaunts before the world seems to be composed mainly of figures seen on paper and the emergence of few billionaires here and there, among politicians and the corporate elite, which does not reflect in the wellbeing of the people?
I am happy that you are talking to me as a person. But, perhaps, just to remind you that I am the board chairman of NOA. Part of what we are supposed to be doing, probably, we have failed the president on, is to act as the bridge between the people and the government. In that regard, we are supposed to help in disseminating and bringing the information on what the government is doing up to the grassroots and also taking feedbacks from what the feelings are. Maybe, we need to do a lot more concerning, specifically, what the government has done in terms of achievement as it trickles down to impact on the lives of the people on the street. I don’t know if you have looked at the mid-term reports of the government. Like you said, figures are on paper, but some of those things you can see them. For instance, if we say we built a road, the Benin-Ore road, we seem to forget so easily. If you go back to when this government came into being, President Jonathan got elected after the initial one year he did, he got elected in 2011. Between 2011 and today, if you check, the economy, the sectorial performance between when he came in and where we are today, you will see appreciable milestones, whether in the education sector, whether in the health sector, whether in infrastructure or whatever. Take the power sector, for instance, today people complain and that is what affects most Nigerians. People expect that after the private companies take over there will be an immediate improvement in the power sector. That cannot happen overnight because these things take a process. Even if the people who have bought over these assets have all the money in the world, there is what is called the mid-time between when you order equipment and when you get them manufactured. When you ship them, you install them and commission them. Some of them take 18 months; some of them take two years. So while these are milestones, you move away from a mere direction to an organisation that will be run efficiently and be driven in a way that can provide maximum service to the people. It takes time and it comes back to the same process. In most of these things, we are short sighted because we don’t remember what was there yesterday and some people cannot compare and know the difference. I am not saying that everything has been hundred per cent but, I must say if you look at the mid-term report of the government, there has been a lot of milestones in almost all the sectors of the economy.
How would you rate the NOA, Ministry of Information, and Jonathan’s media team in terms of communication of the president’s good works among Nigerians?
I think the problem we have is that for everything that happens, whether it is the police man that fails to do his duties on the street or the doctor that fails to work, people look up to the president and they forget that there are people who are in charge of doing different things that make up the government. I think each of these people in doing their own bit, and making sure that this is conveyed, including the agencies that are in charge of statutorily communicating with the people and getting the right feedbacks, the pressure and the criticisms of the government would have been a lot less. There is nowhere in the world where you see the president going round and telling people what he is doing. Those things are supposed to be either visible or you have people who are charged with communicating them. I must say we have not done enough. All the agencies which are supposed to get these information to the people in terms of what they are doing have not done enough to be able to sell their own programmes. I think we need to do a lot more for government in the individual responsibilities that we find ourselves so as to be able to put the government in a more positive light.
In what specific areas do you think NOA needs to do more to better inform the people on government’s programmes and activities?
We have our mandate for us as an agency. The first thing is that our policies cut across all political parties because our mandate is just to let Nigerians know that we have only one country called Nigeria. And for us to be Nigerians, we all individually need to do the right thing to make us have back our glory and we need to imbibe all the good values and lead by example in a way that the negative traits that are around today about Nigeria can be corrected. That’s basically what we are doing. In doing that, we are also supposed to, among other things, disseminate information and act as a bridge between the government and the people. You would recall that the agency has just been re-engineered. The new DG has just been there and I know he is equally to specify the other challenges that he also has. I came on board at the end of last year, so we are just starting our mandate as a board. We are trying to re-position ourselves, re-strategise and align ourselves to be able to achieve this mandate. In a couple of months, people will begin to feel our impact a lot more, especially, as we go into the national dialogue. And in the elections, part of what we are supposed to do is public enlightenment and also to sensitise people on their rights as citizens of this country so that they know what to do on the national conference and issues like that. When it comes to voting rights, what they need to do, how they will deprive themselves if they are not so guided to do the right thing for the benefit of themselves, their children and the country.
How would you react to the allegation that Cross River State is being marginalised by the Jonathan administration in the areas of projects and federal appointments?
What you have said are generalised statements. I’m sure those areas will be looked at. The president doesn’t pretend to be perfect. We are running a very complex country, he is running a very complex country and in the course of this he doesn’t forget perceptions. Take, for instance, the issue of the ceding of Bakassi and the oil wells, I am sure he has found a way of making sure that Cross River State is not dislocated as a consequence of what has happened to the state as a result of the ruling. Don’t forget that this is an issue that was taken to court and it’s the Supreme Court, which brings me to what I talked about on the theory of separations of power. Because the same president who wants to respect the rule of law must be seen to respect the decisions of the court. But in doing that, there are times he has to find political solutions to cushion the effects of these issues and that is part of what probably happened in the case of Bakassi and in terms of the loss of the oil wells. Even though Cross River is not happy, today, Cross River State still remains an oil producing state. But I don’t want to go into any further details. They have to find a way because it is not the people of Cross River State that took the decision of Bakassi going to the Cameroon. But having made a wrong decision, even though it did not happened during his time, he has to find a way of cushioning the effect of that decision for the people of Cross River State.
Some are of the view that, unlike former President Obasanjo that intervened in the 76 oil wells case, President Jonathan, who is from the Niger Delta, has rather not been categorically committed to solving the problems of the region. They point to the East-west road, the rail construction that was supposed to run across the Niger Delta, Gboko-Ogoja-Ikom-Calabar road, the Odukpani-Itu-Uyo road, and other federal projects as raw facts. Are you not baffled by this?
I don’t know if you had the opportunity to speak to the then Minister of Niger Delta to find out why, for instance, the East-West road has not been completed or cannot be done. It comes back to what I was telling you. Democracy is a process and results. The president has parastatals. The Ministry of Niger Delta was created specifically to address the challenge of the Niger Delta and if the ministry fails in performing its statutory responsibilities, it is the ministry that is to blame and not the president. I think we should go and ask, first of all, the Minister of Niger Delta why he has not performed because these are some of the things that are supposed to come up in the Master Plan of NDDC. Today, talking about Cross River, we have the chairman of NDDC from Cross River. Now, let us also in criticising the president, or saying he failed, be as Oliver Twist, that he has done this but we think he can do a lot. Today, the chairman of NDDC comes from the Niger Delta, Cross River State. And NDDC is an intervention agency. So, why don’t we start from there and build on what we have and see how much we can achieve.
A lot of people have expressed shock at the rivalry and bickering between the president and Rivers State Governor Rotimi Amaechi. Does it worry you that this may spell doom for the South-south?
As a person, it does. It does worry me, because we forget very quickly. This is the very first time that we are having somebody climbing to the position of the president and I will have expected that, though, we have disagreements like in every family, it should never degenerate to the level that there is what we call an opposition/opponent to the president. And I think that one of the things that we should also realise is when to draw the line, because the constitution makes very clear the power of the president and the limit of the governor. And as long as we recognise that, we can disagree even within the same party, but we know when to draw the line and we don’t go too far.
In 2011, you vied for Cross River Central senatorial seat and today the seat is alleged to be a source of rift between the governor and the senate leader. How can this logjam be resolved?
When I came out to run, I did it with the intention of serving my people because I felt I had the required experience and I was in a position to give quality service to my people. I express myself within PDP and I sought to be given a ticket to run and in doing that, I also insisted that I wanted to run a free campaign and that I wanted the due process to be followed. I didn’t want to be imposed by anybody. I didn’t come to tell anybody in Cross River that I was asked by Aso Rock or the president to come and run. I wanted the people to determine who will be their leader and in doing that I also didn’t feel that the current person or whosoever was there was not qualified. I just felt that democracy is all about the people having the opportunity to make a choice and I wanted the people to be given the choice within the context of the party we operated. And when I felt that was not being followed, I decided to step aside. I didn’t step down, I didn’t withdraw for anybody. I just withdrew from the race. I think, going forward, we need to recognise that these positions are not about individual self-aggrandisement, it’s about service to the people and nobody should arrogate to himself a monopoly to that position. I think the thing is to always put one thing first, which is the fear of God, because it is only God that will make it possible for whosoever is going to be there. So if you are going to serve, put yourself in the context of serving God because it is only God that will make it possible and in doing that, we have to be careful so that we don’t get carried away.
What is your view on the zoning of the governorship to the northern senatorial district?
I think the gesture of the governor is highly commendable. Whether there is sincerity in that, I can’t tell. But that is also depending on what the people of northern Cross River decide to do with the opportunity, because I am also aware that instead of the people coming together and harmonising this position, there is a lot of bickering, divisions within them. I think the first thing that the people of northern Cross River should do is to articulate their position and try to come together and form a common front. Cross River today, I know, is predominantly PDP. So if they come together and pick their first eleven and they have a united position, I think it will be difficult for anybody to manipulate and impose anybody that the people do not want. But if they don’t do that and they leave it open, then anything can happen. My advice to the people of northern Cross River is that they should not sit down and more so, they should know that the central senatorial district is working together with them. There was a forum I attended in December in Ikom. We are working with each other to see that the north for the first time produces a credible candidate who will carry the party and somebody who will be able to take the state to the next level. I believe if this is done properly, it will be difficult for anybody trying to impose a candidate on the people of the northern Cross River and the people of Cross River because at the end of the day, we are no longer going to be talking about the governor of northern Cross River State but, the governor of the whole Cross River and the future governor of the state. So it is left for us as stakeholders, we have to make sure that we keep our eyes on the ball and do the right thing so that the right person will emerge.
Regarding the 2015 election, some have said that with the recent visit of the president to some royal fathers in the country, campaigning has already begun. But when will the president declare?
On the consultations and visit of the president to royal fathers, the president is the president of Nigeria, Mr. President was elected for four years and the four years will end on May 29, 2015, and until May 29, the president has the constitutional responsibility to govern the country. In the course of governing this country, the president can visit royal fathers, academics or whoever, for consultations. Don’t forget that the visit was private and most of the discussions were held behind closed doors. The country has numerous challenges, including security. We cannot tell what the president was discussing with the royal fathers behind closed doors. There could be insinuations that it was because of his ambition; because the president has not come out to say he is going to run in 2015, even though the constitution has given him the mandate to run for two terms. The president is just doing his first term. So as a president, he is discharging his responsibilities to the Nigerian people by consultation.
Like you said, I had known the president throughout my stay in Bayelsa as a military administrator. One of the first things that strike me about the president is his level of humility. He demonstrates the highest sense of humility. When you are humble and you don’t think that you know everything, that is a sign of a great person. He is ready to fight, he is ready to be faithful, and he is ready to work for other people. So, that humility is the first thing that is dear to me. And, his level of simplicity and selflessness goes to show how selfless he is because whatever he does, he puts himself out, he is not talking about himself or what he is going to achieve or acquire for himself. But he goes about it humbly, unassumingly in order to get the best.
But the president has been criticised for not being proactive when the occasion arises, a situation many allege to have often resulted in poor implementation of policies. How would you respond to this?
I think that is more of a generalised statement. We forget that democracy is a process and result. And today, we talk about due process. The beauty about democracy is the fact that we always disagree to agree. We forget that in a democratic dispensation, there are three organs of government; we have the executive branch, the legislature and the judiciary. And each of them has a distinct function. So, when you talk about being proactive, don’t forget that the executive is also limited to what it can do. Don’t also forget that in recent times, the government has been accused of all kinds of impunity. So, everything that the president does or fails to do is being interpreted, depending on what they see. But I think what people need to realise is that democracy is a process and ours is an evolving democracy; there is a due process of doing things.
Do you think the Jonathan administration is sincerely addressing the economic problems of the country’s poor, given that the record of progress Nigeria flaunts before the world seems to be composed mainly of figures seen on paper and the emergence of few billionaires here and there, among politicians and the corporate elite, which does not reflect in the wellbeing of the people?
I am happy that you are talking to me as a person. But, perhaps, just to remind you that I am the board chairman of NOA. Part of what we are supposed to be doing, probably, we have failed the president on, is to act as the bridge between the people and the government. In that regard, we are supposed to help in disseminating and bringing the information on what the government is doing up to the grassroots and also taking feedbacks from what the feelings are. Maybe, we need to do a lot more concerning, specifically, what the government has done in terms of achievement as it trickles down to impact on the lives of the people on the street. I don’t know if you have looked at the mid-term reports of the government. Like you said, figures are on paper, but some of those things you can see them. For instance, if we say we built a road, the Benin-Ore road, we seem to forget so easily. If you go back to when this government came into being, President Jonathan got elected after the initial one year he did, he got elected in 2011. Between 2011 and today, if you check, the economy, the sectorial performance between when he came in and where we are today, you will see appreciable milestones, whether in the education sector, whether in the health sector, whether in infrastructure or whatever. Take the power sector, for instance, today people complain and that is what affects most Nigerians. People expect that after the private companies take over there will be an immediate improvement in the power sector. That cannot happen overnight because these things take a process. Even if the people who have bought over these assets have all the money in the world, there is what is called the mid-time between when you order equipment and when you get them manufactured. When you ship them, you install them and commission them. Some of them take 18 months; some of them take two years. So while these are milestones, you move away from a mere direction to an organisation that will be run efficiently and be driven in a way that can provide maximum service to the people. It takes time and it comes back to the same process. In most of these things, we are short sighted because we don’t remember what was there yesterday and some people cannot compare and know the difference. I am not saying that everything has been hundred per cent but, I must say if you look at the mid-term report of the government, there has been a lot of milestones in almost all the sectors of the economy.
How would you rate the NOA, Ministry of Information, and Jonathan’s media team in terms of communication of the president’s good works among Nigerians?
I think the problem we have is that for everything that happens, whether it is the police man that fails to do his duties on the street or the doctor that fails to work, people look up to the president and they forget that there are people who are in charge of doing different things that make up the government. I think each of these people in doing their own bit, and making sure that this is conveyed, including the agencies that are in charge of statutorily communicating with the people and getting the right feedbacks, the pressure and the criticisms of the government would have been a lot less. There is nowhere in the world where you see the president going round and telling people what he is doing. Those things are supposed to be either visible or you have people who are charged with communicating them. I must say we have not done enough. All the agencies which are supposed to get these information to the people in terms of what they are doing have not done enough to be able to sell their own programmes. I think we need to do a lot more for government in the individual responsibilities that we find ourselves so as to be able to put the government in a more positive light.
In what specific areas do you think NOA needs to do more to better inform the people on government’s programmes and activities?
We have our mandate for us as an agency. The first thing is that our policies cut across all political parties because our mandate is just to let Nigerians know that we have only one country called Nigeria. And for us to be Nigerians, we all individually need to do the right thing to make us have back our glory and we need to imbibe all the good values and lead by example in a way that the negative traits that are around today about Nigeria can be corrected. That’s basically what we are doing. In doing that, we are also supposed to, among other things, disseminate information and act as a bridge between the government and the people. You would recall that the agency has just been re-engineered. The new DG has just been there and I know he is equally to specify the other challenges that he also has. I came on board at the end of last year, so we are just starting our mandate as a board. We are trying to re-position ourselves, re-strategise and align ourselves to be able to achieve this mandate. In a couple of months, people will begin to feel our impact a lot more, especially, as we go into the national dialogue. And in the elections, part of what we are supposed to do is public enlightenment and also to sensitise people on their rights as citizens of this country so that they know what to do on the national conference and issues like that. When it comes to voting rights, what they need to do, how they will deprive themselves if they are not so guided to do the right thing for the benefit of themselves, their children and the country.
How would you react to the allegation that Cross River State is being marginalised by the Jonathan administration in the areas of projects and federal appointments?
What you have said are generalised statements. I’m sure those areas will be looked at. The president doesn’t pretend to be perfect. We are running a very complex country, he is running a very complex country and in the course of this he doesn’t forget perceptions. Take, for instance, the issue of the ceding of Bakassi and the oil wells, I am sure he has found a way of making sure that Cross River State is not dislocated as a consequence of what has happened to the state as a result of the ruling. Don’t forget that this is an issue that was taken to court and it’s the Supreme Court, which brings me to what I talked about on the theory of separations of power. Because the same president who wants to respect the rule of law must be seen to respect the decisions of the court. But in doing that, there are times he has to find political solutions to cushion the effects of these issues and that is part of what probably happened in the case of Bakassi and in terms of the loss of the oil wells. Even though Cross River is not happy, today, Cross River State still remains an oil producing state. But I don’t want to go into any further details. They have to find a way because it is not the people of Cross River State that took the decision of Bakassi going to the Cameroon. But having made a wrong decision, even though it did not happened during his time, he has to find a way of cushioning the effect of that decision for the people of Cross River State.
Some are of the view that, unlike former President Obasanjo that intervened in the 76 oil wells case, President Jonathan, who is from the Niger Delta, has rather not been categorically committed to solving the problems of the region. They point to the East-west road, the rail construction that was supposed to run across the Niger Delta, Gboko-Ogoja-Ikom-Calabar road, the Odukpani-Itu-Uyo road, and other federal projects as raw facts. Are you not baffled by this?
I don’t know if you had the opportunity to speak to the then Minister of Niger Delta to find out why, for instance, the East-West road has not been completed or cannot be done. It comes back to what I was telling you. Democracy is a process and results. The president has parastatals. The Ministry of Niger Delta was created specifically to address the challenge of the Niger Delta and if the ministry fails in performing its statutory responsibilities, it is the ministry that is to blame and not the president. I think we should go and ask, first of all, the Minister of Niger Delta why he has not performed because these are some of the things that are supposed to come up in the Master Plan of NDDC. Today, talking about Cross River, we have the chairman of NDDC from Cross River. Now, let us also in criticising the president, or saying he failed, be as Oliver Twist, that he has done this but we think he can do a lot. Today, the chairman of NDDC comes from the Niger Delta, Cross River State. And NDDC is an intervention agency. So, why don’t we start from there and build on what we have and see how much we can achieve.
A lot of people have expressed shock at the rivalry and bickering between the president and Rivers State Governor Rotimi Amaechi. Does it worry you that this may spell doom for the South-south?
As a person, it does. It does worry me, because we forget very quickly. This is the very first time that we are having somebody climbing to the position of the president and I will have expected that, though, we have disagreements like in every family, it should never degenerate to the level that there is what we call an opposition/opponent to the president. And I think that one of the things that we should also realise is when to draw the line, because the constitution makes very clear the power of the president and the limit of the governor. And as long as we recognise that, we can disagree even within the same party, but we know when to draw the line and we don’t go too far.
In 2011, you vied for Cross River Central senatorial seat and today the seat is alleged to be a source of rift between the governor and the senate leader. How can this logjam be resolved?
When I came out to run, I did it with the intention of serving my people because I felt I had the required experience and I was in a position to give quality service to my people. I express myself within PDP and I sought to be given a ticket to run and in doing that, I also insisted that I wanted to run a free campaign and that I wanted the due process to be followed. I didn’t want to be imposed by anybody. I didn’t come to tell anybody in Cross River that I was asked by Aso Rock or the president to come and run. I wanted the people to determine who will be their leader and in doing that I also didn’t feel that the current person or whosoever was there was not qualified. I just felt that democracy is all about the people having the opportunity to make a choice and I wanted the people to be given the choice within the context of the party we operated. And when I felt that was not being followed, I decided to step aside. I didn’t step down, I didn’t withdraw for anybody. I just withdrew from the race. I think, going forward, we need to recognise that these positions are not about individual self-aggrandisement, it’s about service to the people and nobody should arrogate to himself a monopoly to that position. I think the thing is to always put one thing first, which is the fear of God, because it is only God that will make it possible for whosoever is going to be there. So if you are going to serve, put yourself in the context of serving God because it is only God that will make it possible and in doing that, we have to be careful so that we don’t get carried away.
What is your view on the zoning of the governorship to the northern senatorial district?
I think the gesture of the governor is highly commendable. Whether there is sincerity in that, I can’t tell. But that is also depending on what the people of northern Cross River decide to do with the opportunity, because I am also aware that instead of the people coming together and harmonising this position, there is a lot of bickering, divisions within them. I think the first thing that the people of northern Cross River should do is to articulate their position and try to come together and form a common front. Cross River today, I know, is predominantly PDP. So if they come together and pick their first eleven and they have a united position, I think it will be difficult for anybody to manipulate and impose anybody that the people do not want. But if they don’t do that and they leave it open, then anything can happen. My advice to the people of northern Cross River is that they should not sit down and more so, they should know that the central senatorial district is working together with them. There was a forum I attended in December in Ikom. We are working with each other to see that the north for the first time produces a credible candidate who will carry the party and somebody who will be able to take the state to the next level. I believe if this is done properly, it will be difficult for anybody trying to impose a candidate on the people of the northern Cross River and the people of Cross River because at the end of the day, we are no longer going to be talking about the governor of northern Cross River State but, the governor of the whole Cross River and the future governor of the state. So it is left for us as stakeholders, we have to make sure that we keep our eyes on the ball and do the right thing so that the right person will emerge.
Regarding the 2015 election, some have said that with the recent visit of the president to some royal fathers in the country, campaigning has already begun. But when will the president declare?
On the consultations and visit of the president to royal fathers, the president is the president of Nigeria, Mr. President was elected for four years and the four years will end on May 29, 2015, and until May 29, the president has the constitutional responsibility to govern the country. In the course of governing this country, the president can visit royal fathers, academics or whoever, for consultations. Don’t forget that the visit was private and most of the discussions were held behind closed doors. The country has numerous challenges, including security. We cannot tell what the president was discussing with the royal fathers behind closed doors. There could be insinuations that it was because of his ambition; because the president has not come out to say he is going to run in 2015, even though the constitution has given him the mandate to run for two terms. The president is just doing his first term. So as a president, he is discharging his responsibilities to the Nigerian people by consultation.
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